What Ever Happened to Chrysler's TURBINE CAR? (Conclusion)

(From Allpar.com)
Notes:


Cole Quinnel, Engineering and Technical Affairs Public Relations Manager, noted:
Those (multi-fuel, etc) were the advantages touted in the 1960s. How much of this would still be true today is unknown because so many elements changed in conventional vehicles, automotive legislation, and related technology. Today we do an incredible amount of testing and modeling to determine cost, efficiency, customer acceptance, customer value, durability, and so on. These testing capabilities just didn't exist 40 years ago. ... Regarding [the ability to use] various types of fuel, this is true. However, they were all petroleum based fuels which does not reduce our dependency on oil. ...

You are correct that the turbine engine has evolved as well in those 40 years and that may be an advantage. The fact that Chrysler built some of these cars in the 1960s is interesting trivia, but it may not be of any real value in considering whether a turbine car is viable in the future. You really must start from a clean slate of paper considering all of the changes in customers, environment, and technology.

Regarding fuel--from an immediate customer perspective, less expensive fuel options are desirable. In the long term, however, vehicles that use non-petroleum based fuel are what the government would prefer. ... that the availability of oil is decreasing is a reality and companies are working to develop alternatives.

Where are they now?

Nine Turbine cars survive today:

1 - Smithsonian Museum - Washington D.C.

1 - National Museum of Transportation - St. Louis, MO.

1 - Gilmore Museum - Hickory Corners, MI.

3 - Walter P. Chrysler Museum - Auburn Hills, MI.

1 - Private owner - Indiana

1 - Henry Ford Museum - Detroit, MI.

1 - National History Museum - Los Angeles, CA.

40 production cars and 5 prototypes were crushed and destroyed, late 1967. One other was destroyed in a crash test at the Chelsea proving grounds.

Personal Note:

I have forever been fascinated with the Turbine Car since reading about it in one of the science/mechanics magazines back in the early 60's as a (pre-teen). It has really been a privilege to not only learn more about this project, but to share a little history with people who perhaps never knew anything like this existed. I will always remember seeing one of these vehicles on US 1 north of Miami, Fl. while riding a bus from Homestead to DeLand, Fl.

To learn more about the Turbine car or to check into other Mopar subjects, visit http://www.allpar.com/ .

What Ever Happened to Chrysler's TURBINE CAR? (Part 13)

(From Allpar.com)
Could Chrysler sell a turbine now? and other answers

Barry Dressel, manager of the Walter P. Chrysler museum, offered a number of insights (responding to Russell Richardson's request) as to why the turbine never made it into full production, and why it would be difficult to offer it now.

Chrysler Engineering began working on automotive applications for gas turbines because they were attracted by the multi-fuel capability, along with the reduced number of moving parts and the absence of vibration. The difficulties to overcome included the fact that turbines, even at the lowest end of their operating spectrum, turn at very high rpm and thus consume considerable amounts of fuel at idle, plus the fact that the application of throttle does not produce instantaneous response, but a lag while the turbine "spools-up." This is basically the same characteristic as the "turbo lag" in turbocharged piston cars.

Turbines also have a high operating temperature, requiring use of special--and expensive--alloys, and the exhaust generates considerable BTUs and exits at a very high temperature.

Turbines are also very loud. Addressing the heat and noise requires considerable more sophistication than required by the piston engine exhaust system. And while our experience with turbine cars even today is that they are quite reliable and require little maintenance, when something does break, its makeup guarantees it will expensive to replace.

For these reasons it's easy to see why aircraft and naval applications are ideal for turbines. The US and the British navies have used destroyers powered not by steam turbines--which require constant maintenance by a comparatively large and well trained crew--but gas turbines, which are "pod" installations requiring less crew to operate and are "overhauled by replacement" during refits. The noise of these units can be dealt with fairly easily, the rpm range required is narrow, and the heat produced can be scavenged for other purposes.

By 1962 Chrysler engineers ameliorated most drawbacks to using a turbine in a domestic automobile so that the renowned fleet of fifty experimental turbine cars with custom built Ghia bodies could sent to consumers for a two-year evaluation program. The verdict the consumer evaluators was favorable overall, although throttle lag remained an issue--especially noticeable in those days of big V-8s.

The big complaint from the consumers was poor fuel economy at idle and lower speeds. Unfortunately, this wasn't something further refinement could alter very much, since high rpm is inherent in gas turbine operation. I suspect this was the main reason that the U.S. Government ended its support for Chrysler's turbine research--the Goverment's goal was to lower fuel consumption in vehicles, not increase it, never mind the fuel flexibility.

Parenthetically, based on our present day experience with our two operative turbine cars, high fuel consumption at idle does result in a lot of exhaust heat BTUs. This may not be a problem with one car, but the possibility of traffic jam including numbers of turbine vehicles, occurring, say, on a steamy summer morning in Atlanta, might have resulted in some interesting thermal pollution problems.

Ultimately the cost of producing turbine vehicles and the inherent drawbacks to their use in an automotive application would have produced very limited market acceptance. In talks about making cars cleaner and more fuel efficient with engineers here, I've asked whether a small turbine, turning at a constant rate, wouldn't be an ideal way to power the generator of an electric motor-driven car. Alas, the noise, high rpm and heat are still expensive problems, and turbines small enough to serve such a purpose are prohibitively expensive compared to existing alternatives, such as small diesels. In a sense, that's where Chrysler left off. In this context, the allure today of the fuel cell becomes clear.

I do know that both Volvo--the truck and bus company, not the car division now owned by Ford--and NASA have developed the sort of gas-turbo-electric hybrid I mentioned before, but the application has evidently not been feasible in an automobile--only in bigger machines, like buses.
All the types of automotive turbine uses seem to be targeted for larger vehicles--tanks, road equipment, busses, etc. The use of new ceramic materials in place of metal alloys seems to offer thermal efficiencies and economic efficiencies unheard of earlier, and the various researchers interested in gas turbines keep mentioning the future development of practical small automotive gas turbines, but no auto company I know of is currently experimenting with cars in the manner of Chrysler from the 1950s to the 1970s. In the future a small, efficient turbine may be developed that can replace the small diesels presently touted for hybrid cars.

What Ever Happened to Chrysler's TURBINE CAR? (Part 12)

(From Allpar.com)
Why the Turbine program ended

Bob Sheaves wrote:
When the Corporation was in such dire straights, back in 1979, Chrysler got some loan guarantees from the US Government. That Chrysler (as a condition of those loans) had to sell off Chrysler Defense and the M1 turbine-powered tank program is lesser known, but still public knowledge.
What is known only to a priveleged few is that the government killed a dream of a lifetime for a group of 70 people at the Chrysler "skunkworks" in Highland Park.

Believe it or not, Chrysler was days away from making a production decision (one which Lee Iacocca favored) on a rather unique vehicle...
The 1981 Chrysler New Yorker Turbine car (M-body) was ready to be tooled, according to the head of the program, Mr. George Scheckter.

There was no more design work to be accomplished, just tool and start production.

The Turbine Engine was a fifth generation (not a 3rd generation like the 1963 car) engine capable of 22mpg in the EPA test cycles. One of the prototypes is still in existence (at least it was in 1989), stored in the same building as the 1963 car, its tooling and all the remaining spare parts (enough to build 3 more of the 1963 cars).
Your government thought it was too much of a risk and ordered the car cancelled as "too risky, from an economic standpoint." Just imagine what COULD have happened!

What Ever Happened to Chrysler's TURBINE CAR?

This 1977 turbine car, based on the LeBaron body, was the last unique-bodied turbine car made.

What Ever Happened to Chrysler's TURBINE CAR? (Part 11)

(From Allpar.com)

Turbine Future (As seen in 1964)

Although the progress of the gas turbine and its advantages are impressive, additional progress in improved component efficiencies (particularly in the compressor) and the future possibility inherent in increased operating temperatures, are extremely promising. For example, a 400-degree increase in nozzle inlet temperature would mean a 40 per cent increase in specific output for a given-size power plant, or conversely, a reduction in size for a fixed horsepower. The same 400 degrees increase would improve fuel economy over 20 per cent without needing to take advantage of any further increase in component efficiency.


The tremendous potential of the turbine to satisfy the characteristics desired in a power plant fires the imagination and the energy of Chrysler engineers. They feel that the turbine has great promise for propelling automobiles more smoothly, more economically, and more dependably.



After the 1964 Report:



According to the original history of the Chrysler Gas Turbine program published in Hemmings Special-Interest Autos magazine and written by gas turbine expert Leon Dixon, the Dodge Charger was originally intended to be a turbine car. His original article stated that the Chrysler turbines had reached the point where production would be practical, and the decision to make a special, limited-production turbine car with different styling was reached. Tom Golec, supervisor of car development, said that low-volume tooling for a 500-vehicle production run had already been ordered, and a no-slip clutch unit was developed (but not used because of its cost). The project was cancelled, and the special body became the Charger (but with a different grille and different tail lights and ornamentation).

What Ever Happened to Chrysler's TURBINE CAR? (Part 10)

(From Allpar.com)
Consumer Delivery and World Tour

In return for the use of the turbine car, each user was asked to furnish Chrysler with information needed for the market evaluation program. In general, Chrysler handled the service, insurance and other costs involved in the use of the turbine car. Each user bought the fuel for driving it. They also were expected to maintain the physical appearance of the car, exercise reasonable care to protect it from damage, and supervise its use by others. And, in the event of some difficulty, they were instructed to report the situation to a turbine service representative.

The world's first consumer delivery of a turbine car took place October 29, 1963 in Chicago. Mr. Lynn A. Townsend, president of Chrysler Corporation, presented the keys to the turbine car to Mr. and Mrs. Richard E. Vlaha of Broadview, Illinois (a Chicago suburb). Typical of the 200 scheduled deliveries, the presentation was observed by newsmen and reported in various newspapers, magazines, and on radio and television.

The objective of this program was to learn just how this new kind of car performed in the hands of typical drivers and in typical everyday usage - on long trips and short trips - and over a wide range of climatic conditions and terrain.

In addition to the user evaluation program, a traveling exhibit began visiting large shopping centers across the United States in January, 1964. The exhibits included a turbine car, turbine engine displays and regular production Chrysler Corporation products. Each stopover was scheduled for several days or weeks and was announced in local newspapers. Chrysler representatives accompanied the exhibits and explained the turbine and Chrysler's program to interested visitors.

A turbine car also was taken on a world tour. From September 12, 1963 through January 8, 1964, the car was shown in 23 cities in 21 countries. The 47,000-mile journey by a chartered aircraft included stopovers in Geneva, Paris, London, Turin, Bombay, Singapore, Tokyo, Sydney, Cape Town, Buenos Aires, and Mexico City.

Throughout all aspects of the consumer evaluation, shopping center exhibit, and world tour programs, Chrysler was trying to get reactions from the general public - from the millions of people who would drive, ride and view this new kind of car. This evaluation, Chrysler emphasized, was designed to generate the information needed as the basis for decisions regarding the direction that should be taken in the turbine program. It was a necessary piece of research concerning the size and characteristics of the potential market for this new kind of automobile. And since it was a test -an experimental market-research project - it had no pre-ordained outcome.

In 1966, Chrysler wrote:
Its body was designed by Chrysler engineers and stylists and built by Ghia of Italy. The gas turbine engine was built and tested at Chrysler Research Laboratories. It had a rated output of 130 bhp @ 3600 rpm output shaft speed. The Turbine Car was used to test consumer and market reaction to gas turbine power in one of the most ambitious consumer research programs yet undertaken. All told, the 50 Turbine Cars used during the test were loaned to 203 different drivers in 133 cities throughout 48 states. Each car was assigned to a user for a three-month period, at the end of which time they were asked to furnish Chrysler with information needed for the market evaluation program.